Full disclosure: I am a GUHSD employee who attended the event with my daughter but did not organize it. 175 people came together to hear about a very timely topic. As one who works on a school campus it does not surprise me that a school venue was not available. Is it not basketball playoffs, that means no gyms. Also theaters are used for rehearsals of concerts and plays. Sonrise Church had a marvelous sound system and comfortable chairs. I saw no church members present, they did not participate in this event. This event was sponsored by a parent group of the school district and a local law enforcement agency. Earlier in the day there was training for law enforcement and school district officials at Santee City Hall and today there was a student assembly on the same topic for El Capitan students. That is why a meeting venue on this end of town was used. Ray Lutz if you know of a venue that could seat 200 people with a wonderful audiovisual equipment provided free of charge, GUHSD would love to know about it!

Really, Mr. Lutz?

And:

Really, Mr. Stone?

Mr. Lutz apparently believes that none of us are smart enough to differentiate between a school meeting and a worship service and somehow if we attend the meeting in this venue that we will be endorsing or embracing a particular religion. Please Mr. Lutz, find another venue that is suitable. Focus on a solution instead of crying to some special interest group. The last thing we need is more litigation. BTW what is a "public agency monitor?" How does one qualify for that title?

I support you Ray Lutz. Bravo!!

Let's have some school meetings or graduations in a mosque and see if some folks start singing from a different hymn book.

Keep a clear and distinct separation of church and state, and our country will be better for it.

you could say the church was kindly offering help to a beleaguered school district that has no money to build sufficient meeting space or you cold say that the church was subtly engaging in proselytizing and/or membership 'development' by offering the space...depends upon your point of view...

you could say that not holding a tight line on separation of church and state gets us away from a freedom of religion (and freedom FROM religion) perspective moving us ever so slowly towards, well, Iran...

you could say a lot of things about this always polarizing issue but, here in America, at least, you won't be beaten up or incarcerated, just belittled or shouted down by those who think their opinion is the only one that matters...

Thank you, Mark, Good Point. Mr. Lutz can use his energy in way more important matters.

Now lets see this for what it is. The name of the presentation is "Protecting Our Kids from Teen Relationship Violence". It's sponsored by the California Juvenile Officers Association, Foothills Secondary PTA and GUHSD. Programs like these need to continue undelayed whether they're held in a church building or not. This program could easily save the life of a young lady or young man. I see no conflict of interest here, Christianity is a religion that discourages promiscuity and abuse of women. Mr. Lutz obviously thinks his political objectives are more important than the safety of children and teenagers. Mr. Lutz you are despicable and , by the way, I am proud to be a supporter of Duncan D. Hunter.

Everyone is free to comment as they like (according to Patch guidelines), but let's keep try and keep things civil here. I don't think labeling someone "despicable" is helping the debate. On that note, the please continue the discussion.

I so agree Jim, Duncan Hunter is a Real American Man with Great Morals and Truly cares about the American People and not his own political gains.

I have had the opportunity to meet Mr. Lutz on several occasions. Although I would not say that I know him well, I would go so far as to say that he cares about his community. He wants government to be held accountable. And he will stand out on a limb to fight for what he believes in. Agree or disagree with him, he is out there trying to make this community a better place. I can't say that I have seen the same commitment from Mr. Duncan D. Hunter.

Selina, then you don't know Duncan Hunter, he is what the people need. Mr. Hunter focuses his attention to what matters, the citizens, community, education, economical growth, citizens rights, and more important he does NOT support legalizing an illegal substance. There is no better Man then Duncan Hunter to protect our interest and well being.

Your statement "And he will stand out on a limb to fight for what he believes in.", does not mean it is in the best interest of citizens, it just means he will do what it takes to get his point across of what HE believes in.

I applaud the GUHSD for standing their ground on what is right, and not be intimidated by any bullies. Enough with this discussion, the meeting is over and done with and it's time to move on to more important matters.

Steven B: thank you for trying to get folks to tone down the personal insults and concentrate on the question raised in the article. I do think it is possible to find folks willing to debate such an important issue as separation of church and state and not have the discussion devolve into name calling...perhaps another time!

This is an important matter. Maybe not to Kathy, but certainly to me. The fact of the matter is that this was a simple conversation pertaining to the debate of separation of church and state and whether some people felt that this meeting held at Sonrise crossed that line. If you read my posts, then you know that I was not one of those people.

Somehow, this turned into a nasty discussion over Mr. Lutz's character and there was some pretty strong language that was tossed carelessly tossed around. That is the type of discourse that I take issue with.

That being said, I stand by my earlier statements and opinions, off topic though they might be.

Every conversation is simple... It's just people talking. What vexes me is why people seem to think the mythical "right to NOT be offended" trumps free speech. We are guaranteed the right to offend people, because we have the right to free speech. People that don't like, are offended by, take offense at or don't want to hear what I (or anyone else) have to say means... Nothing. If it did there would be no first amendment to our constitution. The cost we all pay for free speech is that we have to hear and read things we don't want to hear, and that's just tough stuff us. It's a very small price to pay in my much more than humble opinion.

I will not recant my statement. I am fully qualified to call Mr. Lutz despicable. I speak from experience. I know how fellas think, I am one. We have to do everything we can to protect our young women from horney twerps like myself. This GUHSD program, as I understand, is to educate young women to protect themselves from sexual and other abuse from young men, and to educate young men as to properly treat women. Most of us guys, with very rare exception, need the "oversight" of a supreme being (morals),as well as the law, to keep us in line. It is despicable for a for a young man, or old man, to expliot women to satisfy his lustful passions. It is even more despicable to expliot the lustful passions of men to satisfy political objectives, particularly those to tear down a free, democratic society. The sexualization of America is no accident, it is by design. A design to tear down the family and ultimately the country. Every totalitarian dictator, whether communist, facist, monarchist or whatever has to abolish God, or pretend to abolish God, so that he can insert himself in that role. This effort by Mr. Lutz and others has nothing to do with "separation of church and state". It's about "separation of America from God". Whether he realizes it or not, and I have no way of knowing, Mr. Lutz and others are contributing to the downfall of America as we know it.

And remember,

every "dirty old man" starts out as a "dirty young man"... I speak from experience.

Thanks for your latest comment, Derek. We are here to entertain ALL views — in news and comments, in letters to the editor and restaurant reviews. (And for the record, I love Por Favor’s Enchiladas Del Mar, contrary to Zak Woodruff’s opinion!) If you spot a factual error, let me know—it will be corrected. If you detect unfairness in a story, call us out. LMP’s aim is to bring news and information of all shapes and sizes to a community hungry for coverage. Please continue to express yourself, and I’ll continue to listen. Thanks for being part of an important conversation. But as my fellow editor Steven Bartholow reminds us—and for everyone’s sake—please observe our Terms of Use. http://lamesa.patch.com/terms

No, Rob. Freedom of speech doesn't guarantee your right to offend anyone, and civility isn't synonymous with censorship. Just because you have a fist doesn't mean you have a right to pop someone in the face. Nobody appreciates a bully attitude. Being respectful to others is key to a civilized society. Yes, I can stop reading offensive comments, but we all live in the same collective pool, so to speak. So I can get out of the pool when someone else fouls it, but why should the rest of us have to put up with the stink when someone has zero self-control? Freedoms come with responsibilities.

My only,and probably thankfully last, comment is this: I so love our ability to digress, divulge, disturb, deflect, denounce, etc, without fear. I always hope to engage and be engaging on serious issues affecting our awesome Mt Helix community...and the community of US at large. I just get awfully bored with shouting matches. It hurts my ears and truthfully, we get enough of that on tv and on those U/T comment pages...I consider the separation of church and state a HUGE issue b/c of what we are seeing in Iran and Egypt, for example...our differences here, in the USA, by contrast, are small but important. If the line isn't bold so we have freedom of religion and FROM religion, we risk a lot as citizens. Hence, seemingly gooooooooofy issues like whether a conference on teen relationship violence should be held at a church become of outsized importance...just sayin'...

Our researcher at East County Magazine checked calendars for schools in the district in or close to Santee. It appears that multiple sites on school campuses large enough for this event WERE available but the GUHSD chose not to use a gym or theater in its own district. How come? Now a national organizations says it thinks the district violated the Constitution, though the district says no: http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/node/5508

Brilliant marketing plan
Hosting school events and polling places is a safe investment and a great marketing tool for the churches. They do not even need to charge for their services as their return on investment is huge. It just takes one convert in a thousand for them to quickly recoup the cost of hosting most events. Let me tell you that 10% tithes of some people’s paycheck will cover the costs in no time at all. No wonder today’s religious organizations jump at the chance to break down the wall separating church and state. It’s like leading sheep to the slaughter under the guise of helping out the community. Hey, I heard Westboro Baptist has openings on Wednesday and Friday and they have free ice cream and soda for the kids!
Rodney Hinds

O.K. now that the true agenda has been exposed, FINALLY. I guess it took Ray Lutz's political supporters to come out of the woodwork, to expose it. The AGENDA, is political garbage and has NOTHING to do with separation of church and school. It is just another example of the DEMOCRATS having a temper tantrum.

Oh by the way, Miriam, is the East County Magazine, so desperate for readers that they need to send their editior to the PATCH, to try and recruits readers.

To the attendees of the meeting at Sonrise Church, it is clear that those who fought having this meeting at Sonrise, clearing think you are all idiots and are incapable of thinking for yourself.

Do me a favor and all of you that opposed having this meeting at a church location, just because it is a church, STAY OUT OF SANTEE!!!! We are a loving, supporting, all ethnicity, all religions, educational, family community and we DON'T need your one way, Discriminative behavior.

editors: will you be offering the ability to reply to a reply?

I'm sure Allison has a "juicy" reply to my reply. Can't wait to see it!

Allison, I assume you mean that Ray Lutz is Goofy for making this argument about where this very IMPORTANT issue was be held, correct? I would hate for people to think that you felt "Teen Relationship Violence" was a goofy issue. I think this board has gotten away from what this meeting was all about, the increase in Teen Relationship Violence. It is not about who's feelings are getting hurt, political gain or endorsement, Religion, Democrats trying to strong arm the community, name calling, personal beliefs, bullying, self righteous organizations, or assumptions. It is about how we can help educate the Teen and Parents on how to prevent Relationship Violence.

I only wish I saw this type of energy being directed in a positive direction on this type of violence.

Looking at this from a less emotional standpoint it appears all I've accomplished so far is to PO a few people and give Lutz the free publicity he craves. So my final opinion on the matter is this: If this event were held during school hours and students were required to attend then I would agree that a church has no business being involved. Nobody should be required to attend or even enter a church against their will. But an after hours event sponsored by the PTA where nobody is required to attend then Ray Lutz has no business getting involved. Ray Lutz butt out!

You are correct Jim, all we have accomplished is give him free advertising. Politicians will take any type of publicity whether it is good, or in this case bad. As you can see Mr. Lutz has not ever responded to our posts, simply because he doesn't care what we have to say.

I encourage voters to speak with their vote, it really is the only way to get through to them, and sometimes, not even then.

I do wish Mr. Stone would not of even gotten involved with this ridiculous action but the media is often entertained with stirring the pot. You know what they say, Bad News sells faster then Good News. I do hope Mr. Stone was amused because I certainly was not. If you noticed the supporters for Mr. Lutz are either family, friends or political media that benefits from his actions.

You and I however, must refrain for further postings, so this circus ends and hopefully Mr. Lutz, goes away, far away. Signing off.

I think I've figured out why the rest of San Diego labels Santee as "Clantee" - Kathy and Jim. Thanks for your narrow-minded vitriol. Without it, Santee's reputation might actually evolve into something with, say, class.

"Stay classy, San Diego. Except for you, East County. We don't want your regressive agenda to infect the rest of us." Yes, I think that's how the original quote went.

I hope people realize that K&J speak for a very small percentage of Santeeans. Most of us - if I shall dare make the assumption - believe in civil discourse as well as the separation of church and state.

Mariah, Please refrain from discriminative labeling of Santee, unless you are not educated on the discriminative word you used "Clantee".

Santee is a community that cares about their citizens and does not let politics dictate what is right and what is wrong. If you are the type of person that will sub cum to political bullying, then you are correct, Santee is not the place for you, we have strong values. Santee has many religions and ethnicity and we welcome them. Santee believes in the American Family values and dreams, not what one politician believes in. The citizens in Santee are capable of thinking for themselves and making the right choices.

Well said, Kathy. I've been following the posts on this article and I have not felt compelled to comment until now. I grew up in San Diego county, moved away for several years, then returned 4 years ago with my 2 teenage children. I was apalled at the many changes in San Diego. I chose Santee for the values they believe in. While most in Santee may not have the "class" others think they have, they do still believe in family values and caring for their community. I can't see that in many other areas of San Diego. What I do see is selfishness and egotistical attitudes, along with higher rates of crime. That is not "staying classy" and if it is, I want no part of it. Mariah, your remarks speak for the lack of class of San Diego. I'll stay in "Clantee" and raise my children with morals, self respect and family values. As far as Sonrise...I have attended school functions at their facility. I am not a member of Sonrise, and as a parent, appreciate the fact they offer their facility free of charge. There has never been a church member "preaching", speaking about the church, or handing out literature. They are available to see that the room is ready, and later to see that it is cleaned by the group using it. Never have I heard anyone speak in a religious manner. I think it's sad when a politician tries to interfere with a meeting that has nothing to do with the school or the church, but is an important issue in all communities under the guise of "separation of church and state"

Mariah, Why did you move to Santee 5 years ago? You stand for everything Santee is not. I think you made a serious mistake moving to Santee, I think La Mesa would suit you better, then you could be close to your buddy. Santee does not welcome people like you, that stir up trouble, and misrepresent the constitution. I have lived in Santee for over 35 years, and this is MY home, so thank you, but I plan on staying here and making sure Santee remains the same.

Hi Y'all. I've been following this and decided to pipe-up. Now I'm not a fan of "big business", "big government" or "big religion". But I'll say this: these teenagers are the innocent victims caught in the crossfire of your little war against religion. So I can see why Kathy and Jim find you all to be so disgusting. So grow the hell up, will ya!

Get a Life Mr Lutz. Schools allow Relegious groups to lease out space for Church Services, you don't come to arms over that, so why for this. It was not a relegious Service, No praying, as one writer said, High School playoffs, games, take up the Gyms, what is your aagenda here to get some publicity??? I am an atheist and I have no problem what so ever of The Schools using a Church that can hold up to if I recall that Santana Shootings Services, 2000, for a forum if it is on business. A Judge ruled on a graduation however 20 other Judges may rule opposite of this Judge I have no faith in Judgements on issues. 9 Judges ruled Bruce Henderson was wrong and sided with Casey Gwynn for Petco to be built with Taxpayer Money without a vote, one even ordered My Henderson to pay the legal fees. the State Supreme Court ruled Petco shouldn't have been built, the lower courts erred , said both sides were responsible for their own legal fees and awarded a judgement of 1.00 Too late we already had to pay for the Stadium so dont quote a Judge saying something on Graduation it could be reversed on appeal
'A public school may hold school activities in a religious building, if at all, only if the venue is effectively secularized so as not to associate the school with religion.’ so whats the Problem
did theeey forget to remove the Bibles oh my that would have just sent me into shock and depression .

Sluggo you're a dumbass. Our country was founded by a little war against big government.
A lot of non-religious groups and organizations have meetings in church buildings. Why? Because the rent is so reasonable. If this well-funded church offers up their place for free why not? I never pass up a free meal or a free ride. What's so dangerous about this Sonrise place? If you think the roof might cave in then call the city building department. And have you ever tried to give a speech in a gymnasium? A gym is a great place to play basketball basketball basketball basketball. Look people, if these little girls are gettin beat up by their boyfreinds the issue has to be dealt with now, right now. This church and state crap can be squared away later. What's wrong with you people? In all my life I have never seen so many fruit-cakes is one place since I came to San Diego! What's causing this? I'm afraid to drink the water!

I agree Bosco. And the first amendment doesn't say "separation of church and state". That is from a letter by Thomas Jefferson to a church. The first amendment states the government will not establish a national religion.

I believe this whole thing is being blown out of proportion. Here is to correct what ANYONE says about our constitution establishing "separation of church and state". It establishes that our government cannot tell us that there is one religion to practice. It cannot make a national religion, ONE religion that MUST be practiced. The Bill of Rights says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Read it! If you think that this says, "separation of church and state", you should go back to your government class in high school. Trust me, I just graduated from Santana High just last year (in Santee by the way. Pretty dang good school, great teachers, and I graduated with honors, received the Golden S, won awards from the Marines, Rotary Club, Kiwanis, and the Grossmont Health Care District, and got accepted at every college I applied to. Clantee you say? I will let my accomplishments speak for themselves. I would stay out of a name calling game. That is very childish and unclassy). I was in AP Government and passed the AP test with a 3. Separation of church and state is not anything embedded in our law. Look it up. (http://www.usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html) Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to a church explaining why government and church should stay out of each others' matters. Do your research please!

Ohh, and I was also Drum Major of Santana's band for 2 years, assistant for 1. We held our banquets and a few concerts at Sonrise Church. Read what I say: They don't interfere with your event. They are there to set up and tear down. They make sure you have what you need. No one pushes the church on you. It is simply a nice venue to hold events, meetings, etc. If it weren't for Sonrise's generosity with their venue, our band never would have had the nice times and award banquets that we had.
Sonrise is simply doing a community service. Its what they do! I find it sickening that some people are so for "church" or "state" that they can't simply put aside their differences to support the issue which was Violence In Relationships.

Churches and schools have been sharing space since the beginning. Taxpayers should be grateful for the free room and PA. (No doubt they provided the sound engineer at no cost as well.) This was all a non-issue until the (un)ACLU discovered they could extort "settlements" out of cities trying to avoid litigation over the "separation" fallacy. Alicia was right.

Leonel Sanchez, who contributes to Patch, wrote a story about the GUHSD meeting at Sonrise Church for the U-T: http://bit.ly/gWrRm1

Very nice article and what the focus should be about.